Help with the Basic Setup - New to the Blokas World!

[dkamhaji]

• I have 2 midi controllers
  • Novation Launchpad pro - mutes and slice pads
  • Keystep - keyboard playing synths
• 2 octatracks
  • OT 01 - Master device and clock - midi channel 1-8 (Audio tracks 1-8 paired with midi tracks 1-8 to control track mutes, cue, record arm, per track…)
  • OT 02 - DRUM DUTY - midi channel 9-16 (Audio tracks 9-16 paired with midi tracks 9-16 to control track mutes, cue, record arm, per track…)
• 3 mono synths
  • Synth 01 - midi ch 11
  • Synth 01 - midi ch 12
  • Synth 01 - midi ch 13
• Kaoss pad - midi ch 14

I have a 6x midi thru box to connect all my devices to and 2 midi mergers to split the signals for the 2 controllers.
But as you can imagine I’m having some midi information overlap. from the device midi channels.
I’m attaching a diagram of my current studio layout

1. how can I connect all these devices to the Blokas midi hub as it has 4 in 4 out?

If it’s possible, can you please elaborate and give me a quick example of how it gets connected…

2. Can I do it with one midihub? or do I need multiple?
   Thanks so much!

[sdk75]

Hello dkamhaji and welcome to the forum!

It all really depends on what you’re after. With your setup you can do, well “everything”.

I use my Midihub to trigger CCLFOs with my drum machine and turn chords from my sequencer into random (but in tune) arpeggios then sent to different destinations with different randomness.

Maybe start with documenting your current workflow, then think about what you want to spice up in this workflow, what you like working with during your creative process and how you would like to push it further with Midihub.

Feel free to ask in this forum when you are stuck with the implementation of your ideas!

Have fun!

[dkamhaji]

Thanks for replying!

I know exactly what it is that I want to achieve at the basic core.
I realize the midihub can do alot… I would focus on that once my midi set up is working.

Use the launchpad pro to control track parameters on both Octatracks I have.
That means each octatrack will use 8 midi channels each one per track.
I then want to sequence on my master Octatrack the 3 synths I have.
As I have it now… my 3 synths are sharing midi channels with the second OT.
so im getting some midi overlap.
my second OT is using 9-16 for its 8 tracks and the synths are using 10, 11, 12…
so using the 6x thru box and my mergers this was the best I can come up with.
My launchpad pro also has 1 midi in but 2 outs.

I guess Im very new to these sort of midi magic boxes.
and Im not sure how to connect all my gear if there is only 4 in and 4 outs.
should I still use my midi thru box and merge boxes?
for example connect all the synths to the thru box and the thru box to port 1 on the midi hub?
and maybe use my merger to connect both keystep and launch pad and then connect that output to port 2?
and then connect one OT to port 3 and the other to port 4

Anyways thanks for the help,
Sorry for my scrambled brain as again this midi rerouting concept is new to me.

[sdk75]

Hi again,

At first the Midihub may be intimidating and overwhelming to grasp the concept.

In the beginning I have read this forum from start to end, did a lot of searches (like “delay”, “clock” and so on). Read about others setups, ideas. And slowly getting into it by experimenting.

In your case I would not merge your whole setup in and out the Midihub. Maybe start with connecting a midi controller (to map some Midihub parameters) and a sequencer (to send notes and/or CCs) to the Midihub inputs. Process what’s coming thru the Midihub with pipes and send it out to the synths. You’ll have plenty of fun the coming weeks. Then go from there when you get the hang of it.
You will have some enlightening moments along the way that will bring insights in how you want to hook up more things thru the Midihub.

Enjoy, it’s a great box!
.

[kastenbalg]

You can do this with one midihub, I think. Fewer cables, too. I would respectfully disagree with the earlier poster: I would run all midi through midihub, except for unavoidable merges of the controllers and splits to the synths. I would also make midihub the master clock.

I started writing about how you would do the connections, but then I chuckled and stopped. Almost fooled me. That is a very nice diagram. It is not a real setup. Nobody would use a second octatrack as a drum machine. I also suspect that as it is, there may be a clock loop in there. Other than that there are plenty of good ideas.

I have been wrong many times in my life. If you actually have this rigged up, post a pic and I will gladly eat my hat.

If you are working through design ideas, I would rather greenfield it with you. Take a step back and figure out what you are trying to do, not just how to connect it all. I have built setups of similar complexity and this diagram reminds me of my earlier experiments. I can tell you midihub is ideal for it.

[sdk75]

No offense taken, @kastenbalg, eventually OP will maybe install the Midihub as the centerpiece of his setup (as is mine, sort of).

But before I got there, I went through a lot of iterations. It’s a process of discovery and experiments you have to undergo: try out a piece of gear, send data from/to it, hook it up with another piece, and so on. Sometimes frustrating, sometimes surprising. To me that’s the required creative journey with a rewarding outcome you strive for.

Before my Midihub arrived the plan was to use it as a MIDI splitter. It got quickly out of hand
This is my current setup:

[resonotter]

I like your points about experimentation, @sdk75. When I first read your earlier post, like Will @kastenbalg, I was thinking of putting Midihub at the core.
Thinking back to developing Midihub patches with much simpler set-ups than Danny’s @dkamhaji, though, I recall how quickly Midihub’s capabilities changed what I was originally setting out to do.
So “keep it simpler to start” is a good way to find out just how much Midihub can add to your setup*.

I think I’d start with seeing how much I can build up before resorting to the mergers and splitters.

[Having said all that, Midihub is gonna end up bang slap central, I’ll wager you!]

PS. * @dkamhaji, by way of example (further down the line), Kaoss Pad also as midi-controller is very nice when scaled and mapped to something else!

[dkamhaji]

First off, Thank you thank you thank you for replying and all of your inputs!
So, just to clarify a few things. Im not starting out here, and I know exactly what I want to achieve.
I started building and evolving my dawless about a year ago, and its been a great journey.
I started with a digitakt and then the Octatrack and then… you know$$$…
but I loved the Octatrack workflow so much, that I recently decided to try out selling/replacing my digitakt with a second octatrack. Its been really interesting, but it did bring up some midi problems that I did not have with my digitakt setup. hence, why I landed here at blokas.

My midi understanding is not that advanced, but I get around, I do hope that my blokas journey will make me way more comfortable with the midi flow, and expanding its possibilities with the Midiihub.

So that out of the way, here is exactly what I want to do.
I want to use one OT as my master clock and transport. its my master in the audio chain as well.
the second ot is replacing my digitakt, and handling drums and midi sequencer for the 3 synths.
I have 3 synths and a kaoss pad going into my second OT midi/audio. (kaoss - only midi audio is routed through a mixer)

Currently, I use the 2 midi controllers to control several things…
The Keystep primarily its just to play synths and record keys into my second OT handling midi.
Im not sure if anyone here has an OT, but one thing that sucks with it, is that
the keystep sends out note messages to the OT that make the OT start stop, change tracks, send tracks to Cue outs etc… Its really a pain, so I would love it if with the midihub, I can prevent that from happening for both OTs by filtering out those messages, and only using the keys to play.

Then, my Launchpad pro Mk3.
Its really at the heart of my setup. Its how I control everything and makes me really quick with my Octatrack.
Having one button functions instead of the OTs multiple buttons for one function is Key for me. and I use a lot of slices in my music so I love mapping them on the Launchpad.
It does have 1 midi in and 2 outs. im not sure if they are independent outs as in ports… but I do not think so.
I would love to be able to control each octatrack’s track functions with my launchpad pro.
that means that each OT uses up 8 midi tracks.
So one basic question I have is this:
Can I connect each OT in/out to their own port on the midihub, and set the audio track for both OT to midi ch 1-8.
and inside the midihub program it to route both sets of the 8 midi ch to the launchpad pro through the respected ports, so the LPP would know who its talking to even though they both have the same midi ch number?
I hope im making sense… for example like when I use components for my LPP to program a midi page…
how would the LPP know which OT im referring to when I set up a function say mute to midi ch5?

Since my last illustration I changed the setup.
this is without the midihub.
and Im also including a second illustration of how im thinking connecting
the studio with a midihub.

Let me know if my midihub setup is looking good to you all.
It arrives tomorrow and I’m getting excited!

[sdk75]

@dkamhaji

Its really a pain, so I would love it if with the midihub, I can prevent that from happening for both OTs by filtering out those messages, and only using the keys to play.

I don’t have Elektron boxes but if you search the forum you will find workarounds for these machines.

@dkamhaji

Can I connect each OT in/out to their own port on the midihub, and set the audio track for both OT to midi ch 1-8.
and inside the midihub program it to route both sets of the 8 midi ch to the launchpad pro through the respected ports, so the LPP would know who its talking to even though they both have the same midi ch number?

Let the Launchpad send on channel 1-8 for one Octatrack and let it send on channel 9-16 for the other. Then in the Midihub Editor remap channel 9-16 back to 1-8 for the desired Midihub OUT port.

@dkamhaji

Let me know if my midihub setup is looking good to you all.
It arrives tomorrow and I’m getting excited!

Looks good but mind the clock You’ll have to filter it out (and other data too) in the editor when looping back to the master…

Enjoy the Midihub, it will take your breath!

[resonotter]

hey, @dkamhaji
Good advice from @sdk75.
A couple of extra points:

Before you explore anything fancy with your new Midihub, you’ll find it’s great at the more mundane “housekeeping” tasks, like making sure only what you want is getting from the KS to the OTs. Or mapping a bunch of channels to a different bunch like sdk says. Or taking the CCs from the KS and sending them (and only them) somewhere useful other than the OTs.

AFAI can see, the OTs have one MIDI out and one MIDI thru. The latter just passes on anything that comes in unchanged. So if the OT is listening on Ch1-8 and you connect another device set to ch9 to the thru, it will get those messages passed down the daisy-chain from say Midihub. You might be able to use this to free up ports elsewhere.

[sdk75]

@resonotter

Before you explore anything fancy with your new Midihub, you’ll find it’s great at the more mundane “housekeeping” tasks, like making sure only what you want is getting from the KS to the OTs. Or mapping a bunch of channels to a different bunch like sdk says. Or taking the CCs from the KS and sending them (and only them) somewhere useful other than the OTs.

Yes, this. First preset in my Midihub is just the “basic” setup with all routings and filtering. I then copy this preset to preset 2 and start experimenting there with the fancy stuff. Handy to go back to preset 1 for A/B comparison too.

[resonotter]

Very organised!

Midihub makes all that stuff so easy, I sometimes wonder if it encourages me to be to be even more haphazard; so, if I’m on a sound-mangling roll & I’ve got a bunch CCs (say 35-40 on ch1) and my controller is currently set up with a bank of say 13-18 on ch3, I’ll just Remap & Rescale in Midihub rather than go through the fiddle of changing the controller.

Much better for my creative flow in the moment, but a couple of months later, I look back & ask ‘WTF was I doing there?’!

Back to the OP, @dkamhaji I’m looking forward to the moment when s/he has got Midihub to do the router/filter stuff and starts to realise just how much more it can do:
(just as a teaser) with that setup, I’m picturing controller knobs controlling LFOs modifying LFOs constantly changing filters…

nuff posting, back to the chaos!

[kastenbalg]

This. Putting aside my earlier doubts, the biggest problem with this setup is all the external splitting and merging. Not easy to avoid with a setup this size but I prefer the midihub in the center because of the routing flexibility you get inside it.

I suggest using midihub as the clock because of hard experience with Octatrack’s per pattern tempo being buggy.

Let me try:

Inputs
Octatrack 1 out → A
Octatrack 2 out → B
Launchpad out 1 → C
All other midi controllers (merge) → D

Outputs
A → Octatrack 1 in
B → Octatrack 2 in
C → Launchpad? Other midi controllers?
D → (split) synths

I am very confident that the octatracks need their own ports on the midihub. From there it is more mix and match. Not familiar with the launchpad but its second output seems like a red herring.

[resonotter]

@kastenbalg

Not easy to avoid with a setup this size but I prefer the midihub in the center because of the routing flexibility you get inside it.

Agreed, Will. That was my point with

@resonotter

I think I’d start with seeing how much I can build up before resorting to the mergers and splitters

cos my hunch is @dkamhaji Danny will find the Midihub doing the important work once s/he gets the hang of it.

[dkamhaji]

Thanks @kastenbalg seems like my midi hub based diagram is not that far off…
With this set up knowing each OT will handle 8 midi channels each for its tracks.
would you set up OT1 to midi channel 1-8 and OT 2 to 9-16?
or both OT’s to 1-8 and since they are on their own port A and B, direct them to the right place on the midhub app.

Not having it yet, im still confused, if I do that (set both OT 1-8) how my main controller (Launchpad) know which OT Mute for example, I’m referring to when setting it up in the Launchpad components software, when I assign the CC to the midi channel.

I can also imagine a set up where one OT is 1-8 second OT 9-16, and then the other synths in their own port say C to anything say 9-12. since they are on their own port it wont interfere with the second OT’s overlapping 9-12?

Again, my apologies for my convoluted questions.
Im sure when I get it, later today my quest will begin and with all of your helps here,
I can get it up and running.

I do have it running btw, without the midihub - set up with my other diagram

Thanks again to all here!
and encouraging community indeed!

[resonotter]

@dkamhaji

Not having it yet, im still confused, if I do that (set both OT 1-8) how my main controller (Launchpad) know which OT Mute for example, I’m referring to when setting it up in the Launchpad components software, when I assign the CC to the midi channel.

Your Launchpad won’t. That’s why @sdk75 recommended setting up you LP so that some events are sent out on a lower channel and other’s on the upper.

@dkamhaji

I can also imagine a set up where one OT is 1-8 second OT 9-16, and then the other synths in their own port say C to anything say 9-12. since they are on their own port it wont interfere with the second OT’s overlapping 9-12?

If you follow the advice of giving the OTs dedicated out ports, then you can keep things simpler in your head by keeping both OTs on 1-8 and letting Midihub map incoming from LP to the right place.

Here’s a simple example using @kastenbalg’s setup:

So:

1. LP is coming into both pipelines
2. in the first, ch9-16 are filtered out. ch1-8 are sent to A for OT1
3. in the 2nd, ch1-8 are filtered out. Then ch9-16 are mapped back to ch1-8 for OT2 on B
   (Obviously, kept it really simple to show this point, you’d actually end up with more pipelines for tempo and routing stuff off the other devices).

No you don’t need to have a hub connected to start sketching out patches. Post your first attempt up and I’m sure one of us will have a look…

[dkamhaji]

Thanks that helped very much.
Received the midihub and yea everyone’s input helped a lot.
Mostly everything seems to be working well.
the launchpad midi channel filtering, woah! I know basic… but still blew my mind…

One problem so far is that my devices connected to my midi thru box do not seem to be receiving tempo from the OT1 (currently the master clock) I realize many here say to have the midihub take care of clock - but for now I would really love to have the OT be the master clock.
one of the items in my midi thru box is a korg kaoss pad. and the effects are not receiving the right tempo.
with my past layout without the midihub it did. do you guys/gals see any reason why this may be happening?

I currently have it connected like so:

Inputs
Octatrack 1 out → A
Octatrack 2 out → B
Launchpad out 1 → C
Keystep out → D

Outputs
A → Octatrack 1 in
B → Octatrack 2 in
C → Midi Thru Box with 3 synths
D →

with the below settings:

[resonotter]

@dkamhaji

midi channel filtering, woah! I know basic… but still blew my mind…

Ha! Welcome to Midihub!

@dkamhaji

One problem so far is that my devices connected to my midi thru box do not seem to be receiving tempo from the OT1 (currently the master clock) I realize many here say to have the midihub take care of clock - but for now I would really love to have the OT be the master clock.
one of the items in my midi thru box is a korg kaoss pad. and the effects are not receiving the right tempo.
with my past layout without the midihub it did. do you guys/gals see any reason why this may be happening?

Others will have done a lot more troubleshooting with Clock than me.
In meantime, I note you have three outs to the Thru Box. (The last looks like a dup of the first)

(when the Hub is connected and machines are running)
I’d suggest

• selecting one of them
• Now do View>Midi Monitor to see the event stream. (Note the bpm at that pipe is shown in the top of the panel)
• You can limit which events you actually see by clicking on the button Settings… and going to Outgoing Filters
  (Doesn’t affect ouput, just reduces Monitor clutter)
  Viewing this panel while selecting the different Thru Box outs should give you clearer idea of what’s going on.

Also, Try double-clicking on each Thru Box out to disable, so you can see whether the Kaoss is happy when say just the first pipeline is connected.

Oh, forgot to mention, my hunch would be to lose the duplicate pipeline and put a Filter pipe in: OT2>Filter>THRU BOX to remove Clock and anything else extraneous

[dkamhaji]

Actually, you are right - the last pipe was redundant, and the fault was in a sync setting in my OT2…
So far this Midihub is golden!

Curious about using the Midihub as the master clock.
Do you map the clock module to a midi controller knob, to dynamically change the tempo when not connected to the computer?

[resonotter]

Good to hear you got it going

@dkamhaji

Do you map the clock module to a midi controller knob, to dynamically change the tempo when not connected to the computer?

Yes, If I wanted real-time control of anything, I’d first look at mapping to a knob/slider.
If it’s your first time mapping, remember to make sure nothing else is sending out events first - the hub is listening for the first note/cc from anywhere.

When you start mapping – and realise how wide your control options are with Midihub pipes – the box really takes off…